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Replies:
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Last Post:
Mar 30, 2009 12:14 AM
by: Kristian Rink
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Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:05 AM
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Folks;
I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this time,
but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given it
really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings addressing
the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of view
the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS be
continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the given
one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the application
server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as an
open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the community
behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen in
case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to eventually
compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
Cheers & all the best,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:22 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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there is a book called "beyond fear" with a collection of all these
FUDs.. and a lot of speculations and conspiracy theories  the good,
the bad and the ugly about guessing the future.. you will love it
at the end you have no guarantee at all (unless your own death some
day).. you never had and you will never have.. so, find a way to deal
with it, or continue in your paranoid track good luck eheh
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kristian Rink <lists@zimmer428.net> wrote:
> Folks;
>
> I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this time,
> but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
> developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
> finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given it
> really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
> that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings addressing
> the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of view
> the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS be
> continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
> hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
>
> I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the given
> one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
> given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the application
> server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as an
> open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the community
> behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen in
> case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
> Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to eventually
> compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
>
> Cheers & all the best,
> Kristian
>
> --
> Kristian Rink
> cell   :  +49 176 2447 2771
> business: http://www.planconnect.de
> personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
> "Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
> The earth might be uninhabited..."
> //beckett / krapp's last tape//
>
>
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>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:58 AM
in response to: Felipe Gaúcho
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Felipe,
Can you be more specific which book you are refering to?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Beyond+Fear&x=0&y=0
Thanks
2009/3/23 Felipe Gaúcho <fgaucho@gmail.com>
> there is a book called "beyond fear" with a collection of all these
> FUDs.. and a lot of speculations and conspiracy theories the good,
> the bad and the ugly about guessing the future.. you will love it
>
> at the end you have no guarantee at all (unless your own death some
> day).. you never had and you will never have.. so, find a way to deal
> with it, or continue in your paranoid track good luck eheh
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kristian Rink <lists@zimmer428.net>
> wrote:
> > Folks;
> >
> > I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this
> time,
> > but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
> > developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
> > finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given it
> > really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
> > that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings
> addressing
> > the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of view
> > the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS
> be
> > continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
> > hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
> >
> > I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the given
> > one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
> > given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the
> application
> > server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as an
> > open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the
> community
> > behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen in
> > case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
> > Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to eventually
> > compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
> >
> > Cheers & all the best,
> > Kristian
> >
> > --
> > Kristian Rink
> > cell : +49 176 2447 2771
> > business: http://www.planconnect.de
> > personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
> > "Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
> > The earth might be uninhabited..."
> > //beckett / krapp's last tape//
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Please help to test this application:
> http://fgaucho.dyndns.org:8080/cejug-classifieds-richfaces
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 2:01 AM
in response to: Sarah kho
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not exactly sure about the bibliography, but it is a book about the
end of Java - and its replacement by super fantastic technologies..
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Sarah kho <sarah.kho@gmail.com> wrote:
> Felipe,
>
> Can you be more specific which book you are refering to?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Beyond+Fear&x=0&y=0
>
> Thanks
>
> 2009/3/23 Felipe Gaúcho <fgaucho@gmail.com>
>>
>> there is a book called "beyond fear" with a collection of all these
>> FUDs.. and a lot of speculations and conspiracy theories the good,
>> the bad and the ugly about guessing the future.. Â you will love it
>>
>> at the end you have no guarantee at all (unless your own death some
>> day).. you never had and you will never have.. so, find a way to deal
>> with it, or continue in your paranoid track good luck eheh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kristian Rink <lists@zimmer428.net>
>> wrote:
>> > Folks;
>> >
>> > I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this
>> > time,
>> > but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
>> > developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
>> > finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given
>> > it
>> > really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
>> > that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings
>> > addressing
>> > the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of
>> > view
>> > the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS
>> > be
>> > continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
>> > hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
>> >
>> > I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the
>> > given
>> > one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
>> > given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the
>> > application
>> > server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as
>> > an
>> > open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the
>> > community
>> > behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen
>> > in
>> > case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
>> > Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to
>> > eventually
>> > compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
>> >
>> > Cheers & all the best,
>> > Kristian
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kristian Rink
>> > cell   :  +49 176 2447 2771
>> > business: http://www.planconnect.de
>> > personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
>> > "Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
>> > The earth might be uninhabited..."
>> > //beckett / krapp's last tape//
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Please help to test this application:
>> http://fgaucho.dyndns.org:8080/cejug-classifieds-richfaces
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>
>
>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 2:09 AM
in response to: Felipe Gaúcho
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you can start with this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Java-Bruce-Tate/dp/0596100949
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/10/12.html
2009/3/23 Felipe Gaúcho <fgaucho@gmail.com>:
> not exactly sure about the bibliography, but it is a book about the
> end of Java - and its replacement by super fantastic technologies..
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Sarah kho <sarah.kho@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Felipe,
>>
>> Can you be more specific which book you are refering to?
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Beyond+Fear&x=0&y=0
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> 2009/3/23 Felipe Gaúcho <fgaucho@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> there is a book called "beyond fear" with a collection of all these
>>> FUDs.. and a lot of speculations and conspiracy theories the good,
>>> the bad and the ugly about guessing the future.. Â you will love it
>>>
>>> at the end you have no guarantee at all (unless your own death some
>>> day).. you never had and you will never have.. so, find a way to deal
>>> with it, or continue in your paranoid track good luck eheh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kristian Rink <lists@zimmer428.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Folks;
>>> >
>>> > I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this
>>> > time,
>>> > but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
>>> > developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
>>> > finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given
>>> > it
>>> > really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
>>> > that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings
>>> > addressing
>>> > the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of
>>> > view
>>> > the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS
>>> > be
>>> > continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
>>> > hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
>>> >
>>> > I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the
>>> > given
>>> > one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
>>> > given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the
>>> > application
>>> > server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as
>>> > an
>>> > open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the
>>> > community
>>> > behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen
>>> > in
>>> > case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
>>> > Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to
>>> > eventually
>>> > compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
>>> >
>>> > Cheers & all the best,
>>> > Kristian
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Kristian Rink
>>> > cell   :  +49 176 2447 2771
>>> > business: http://www.planconnect.de
>>> > personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
>>> > "Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
>>> > The earth might be uninhabited..."
>>> > //beckett / krapp's last tape//
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Please help to test this application:
>>> http://fgaucho.dyndns.org:8080/cejug-classifieds-richfaces
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 2:10 AM
in response to: Felipe Gaúcho
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Felipe Gaúcho schrieb:
[...]
> at the end you have no guarantee at all (unless your own death some
> day).. you never had and you will never have.. so, find a way to deal
> with it, or continue in your paranoid track good luck eheh
Sure, you're right. But in my opinion it's always a matter of balancing
uncertainty and compensation for risks and potential pitfalls which are more
obviously laying ahead than others. That's why, after all, I am promoting
indeed not to panic but to ponder different options in a calm way now -
_because_ now there's not yet any reason to panic. 
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:27 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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Kristian Rink wrote:
> I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this time,
> but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
> developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
> finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given it
> really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
> that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings addressing
> the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of view
> the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS be
> continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
> hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
>
Probably a waste of time to consider unless/until such a merger is
announced? Java still needs a reference implementation and IBM seems
invested in Java. Concern should exist whether or not a merger goes
ahead. Bad things could happen either way. Good things could happen
either way.
There is entirely too much speculation / caution throughout the world
and it is self-fulfilling. First somebody asks whether the sky might
fall, then people pull their investments out "just in case", then the
sky really does fall because nobody is invested any more. It's not a
finger in the wound - it's dirt.
Just an outsider opinion...
Cheers,
mark
P.S. One might speculate about DB2 vs MySQL if one really wants to go
insane worrying about possibilities.
--
Mark Mielke <mark@mielke.cc>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:47 AM
in response to: Mark Mielke
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Mark Mielke schrieb:
[...]
> Probably a waste of time to consider unless/until such a merger is
> announced? Java still needs a reference implementation and IBM seems
> invested in Java. Concern should exist whether or not a merger goes
> ahead. Bad things could happen either way. Good things could happen
> either way.
Yes, and, from a "status quo" point of view I think you're perfectly right.
My question, however, is: It could take a couple of weeks / months for such
a merger to happen (if at all). Following this, it again could take months /
weeks unless there might be a clue which projects will be continued and
which eventually won't. My question is as simple as that: How many users
eventually will stay away from Glassfish during these months because of its
uncertain future? Some of them have gone through situations like these
before with BEA being acquired by Oracle, leaving some of the tools of both
companies virtually being "ceased" after that.
> There is entirely too much speculation / caution throughout the world
> and it is self-fulfilling. First somebody asks whether the sky might
> fall, then people pull their investments out "just in case", then the
> sky really does fall because nobody is invested any more. It's not a
> finger in the wound - it's dirt.
I think all the people around here, all those using Glassfish (including me,
actually, as well as the company I am working for / representing here which
still then and now proudly bears the Glassfish logo on its "partners" web
page) surely aren't likely to get upset by speculation and give up on things
because of that. My point of view, in this situation, is solely focused on
attracting new users, and these days convincing people to give Glassfish a
test drive is pretty hard because of reasons completely non-technical (which
hurts if you believe in a given piece of technology).
> P.S. One might speculate about DB2 vs MySQL if one really wants to go
> insane worrying about possibilities.
Yes. And I am sure people will, as if being affected by such a situation it
seems just natural. I think there needs to be a "middle path" between blind
FUD and panic on one and a (same as blind?) "wait-and-see" position on the
other side. And this is all that is of interest to me at the moment - what's
this "middle path", doesn't it seem sane to discuss alternative options
while there's still(?) time for that? Not sure, though, also just an
outsider/user point of view on that...
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 9:43 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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IBm is heavily invested in java. There is no question they would keep on with it.
A more subtle question is what they would do with competing technologies...
Hostpot v. IBM's VM tech
Glassfish v. Websphere
And the answer is that nobody knows. In the long run they would likely
want to merge competing products into one product line but how they went
about that would be anyone's guess.
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 10:11 AM
in response to: jeffpk
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I have a feeling that if a merger was to happen GlassFish would replace
WebSphere Community Edition at the low-end of IBM's WebSphere Application
Server product line and the better parts of the platform would be rolled
into the rest of the WebSphere product family's next major versions or
would be rolled out as Feature Packs.
The products I'm most curious about are the Identity Suite (OpenSSO, DS,
IDM) which directly compete at the top end of the enterprise market with
IBM's Tivoli branded products.
Regards,
Vince
glassfish@javadesktop.org
03/23/2009 01:44 PM
Please respond to
users@glassfish.dev.java.net
To
users@glassfish.dev.java.net
cc
Subject
Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
IBm is heavily invested in java. There is no question they would keep on
with it.
A more subtle question is what they would do with competing
technologies...
Hostpot v. IBM's VM tech
Glassfish v. Websphere
And the answer is that nobody knows. In the long run they would likely
want to merge competing products into one product line but how they went
about that would be anyone's guess.
[Message sent by forum member 'jeffpk' (jeffpk)]
http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=338521
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 10:20 AM
in response to: jeffpk
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As a side note, the one I AM willing to guess about is Netbeans. It would die. The good parts, such as the profiler, would hopefully be retooled as Eclipse plugins.
Frankly, IMHo this should have happened years ago anyway. It was mostly Sun pride and stubbornness that keep NetBeans in the frey.
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 11:37 AM
in response to: jeffpk
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glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
> As a side note, the one I AM willing to guess about is Netbeans. It
> would die. The good parts, such as the profiler, would hopefully be
> retooled as Eclipse plugins.
Usually these discussions indeed lead nowhere, but while we're at it: Given
that this way IBM would gain full control of Java including Swing and all, I
surely hope they finally put that crippled semi-portable UI framework (SWT)
to rest and push forth Swing about that. And I surely hope (and actually
would even help) for a NetBeans fork if this is how it has to go; working
with both Eclipse and NetBeans on a daily basis right now, I don't need a
second guess which one is the better of these tools (just see: profiling, UI
designer, maven tooling, Glassfish integration, web services tooling
(especially talking about clients), Java ME...).
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 12:05 PM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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Kristian Rink wrote:
> glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
>
>> As a side note, the one I AM willing to guess about is Netbeans. It
>> would die. The good parts, such as the profiler, would hopefully be
>> retooled as Eclipse plugins.
>>
>
> Usually these discussions indeed lead nowhere, but while we're at it: Given
> that this way IBM would gain full control of Java including Swing and all, I
> surely hope they finally put that crippled semi-portable UI framework (SWT)
> to rest and push forth Swing about that. And I surely hope (and actually
> would even help) for a NetBeans fork if this is how it has to go; working
> with both Eclipse and NetBeans on a daily basis right now, I don't need a
> second guess which one is the better of these tools (just see: profiling, UI
> designer, maven tooling, Glassfish integration, web services tooling
> (especially talking about clients), Java ME...)
NetBeans is a lot slower and missing has more limited auto-formatting
features. I choose NetBeans too - but I find myself missing Eclipse.
Cheers,
mark
--
Mark Mielke <mark@mielke.cc>
[att1.html]
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 12:09 PM
in response to: Mark Mielke
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Only because you haven't used IDEA.
Mark Mielke wrote:
> Kristian Rink wrote:
>> glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
>>
>>> As a side note, the one I AM willing to guess about is Netbeans. It
>>> would die. The good parts, such as the profiler, would hopefully be
>>> retooled as Eclipse plugins.
>>>
>>
>> Usually these discussions indeed lead nowhere, but while we're at it:
>> Given
>> that this way IBM would gain full control of Java including Swing and
>> all, I
>> surely hope they finally put that crippled semi-portable UI framework
>> (SWT)
>> to rest and push forth Swing about that. And I surely hope (and actually
>> would even help) for a NetBeans fork if this is how it has to go;
>> working
>> with both Eclipse and NetBeans on a daily basis right now, I don't
>> need a
>> second guess which one is the better of these tools (just see:
>> profiling, UI
>> designer, maven tooling, Glassfish integration, web services tooling
>> (especially talking about clients), Java ME...)
>
> NetBeans is a lot slower and missing has more limited auto-formatting
> features. I choose NetBeans too - but I find myself missing Eclipse.
>
> Cheers,
> mark
>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 12:21 PM
in response to: Mark Mielke
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Mark Mielke schrieb:
[...]
>> second guess which one is the better of these tools (just see: profiling, UI
>> designer, maven tooling, Glassfish integration, web services tooling
>> (especially talking about clients), Java ME...)
>
> NetBeans is a lot slower and missing has more limited auto-formatting
> features. I choose NetBeans too - but I find myself missing Eclipse.
Unfortunately yes, speed still is an issue in NetBeans, even though latest
(6.7) pre-release builds seemingly are likely to bring some improvements
here. Actually, heavily using maven2 for development, I switched to NetBeans
from Eclipse quite a while ago and never looked back - the maven2 tooling in
Eclipse simply seems brain-damaging. Not sure how IDEA or JDeveloper does
here, though...
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 11:44 AM
in response to: jeffpk
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> As a side note, the one I AM willing to guess about
> is Netbeans. It would die. The good parts, such as
> the profiler, would hopefully be retooled as Eclipse
> plugins.
>
> Frankly, IMHo this should have happened years ago
> anyway. It was mostly Sun pride and stubbornness
> that keep NetBeans in the frey.
Except that there are some of us that consider Netbeans to be a superior tool, but that reopens another discussion that's beyond this thread. I have my doubts that IBM would support Netbeans or Swing if the merger went through, but who knows. Anything is possible.
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 12:42 PM
in response to: evickroy
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Ntebeans, no.
Swing, Im not so sure they could afford to drop.
The fact is, in the large, they Won the NB v. Eclipse battle but lost Swing v. SWT one. There's a reason why Eclipse supports Swing but Nb doesnt support SWT.
Most importantly, though, Swing is part of the stnadard and has been fora long time. I dont think they'd just willy nilly break it.
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 1:15 PM
in response to: jeffpk
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hey guys, could you please get back to the best Java EE 5 container
ever ?? glassfish ?
btw, Jonas become compliant with Java EE 5 few days ago.. anyone knows
if there is some remarkable difference between Glassfish and Jonas ?
or if it has extra features or something ?
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 3:16 PM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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Kristian Rink wrote:
> Folks;
>
> I'm sure no one really would want to deal with this question at this time,
> but as I frequently stumbled across this in discussions with fellow
> developers the last couple of days, I feel the need to, well, "put the
> finger to a wound" asking what perspectives Glassfish might have given it
> really should happen that IBM might acquire Sun sooner or later... I see
> that IBM folks, actually, do have a bunch of software offerings addressing
> the same target group Glassfish does address, and from that point of view
> the current situation of uncertainty (will or will not Glassfish /SJSAS be
> continued in case of Sun being acquired by IBM) is surely to some extend
> hurting the adoption and public perception of Glassfish.
Hi Kristian,
I think as of now there is no reason to jump to any conclusions. First
of all: We simply do not know what is going to happen. We can guess this
and reason about that but in the end we have to wait whether the deal
goes through and if so, what IBM is going to do.
I also think that realising your apps in a Java EE compliant way is a
safe way to do. GlassFish is the reference implementation and this is
not going to change. But even when - should the very worst happen - IBM
should at some point in the future decide to drop GlassFish or to make
it a commercial-only option any EE compliant app should be easily
portable to other servers - though I, of course, hope that this won't be
necessary.
My recommendation is to simply stick to GlassFish. Keep testing it, keep
reporting issues, keep asking and answering questions and thus keep
making GlassFish better. This is probably the best way to guarantee
GlassFish's future.
--
Wolfram Rittmeyer
>
> I know that, overally, in a situation of "business issues" like the given
> one, reliable statements are pretty difficult (if possible at all), but
> given Glassfish is an open source project, I wonder whether the application
> server would be capable of, say, even surviving "being axed by IBM" as an
> open-source project (or, eventually, a fork) driven forth by the community
> behind it. Put another way: Is there any "Plan B" of what would happen in
> case Sun gets sold to Big Blue and they decide to end spending money on
> Project Glassfish? What are your thoughts? Any perspectives to eventually
> compensate for the given situation of uncertainty about that?
>
> Cheers & all the best,
> Kristian
>
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 25, 2009 12:24 AM
in response to: Wolfram Rittmeyer
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Hi Wolfram, *;
Wolfram Rittmeyer schrieb:
> I think as of now there is no reason to jump to any conclusions. First
> of all: We simply do not know what is going to happen. We can guess this
> and reason about that but in the end we have to wait whether the deal
> goes through and if so, what IBM is going to do.
Indeed. The only thing I hope here is that, no matter what decisions will be
made, it will be rather soon as uncertainty is surely likely to happen
projects like NetBeans, Glassfish and OpenSolaris (not sure about MySQL and
OpenOffice).
> My recommendation is to simply stick to GlassFish. Keep testing it, keep
> reporting issues, keep asking and answering questions and thus keep
> making GlassFish better. This is probably the best way to guarantee
> GlassFish's future.
At the moment that's exactly what we do, and so far I/we don't really feel
concerned. It's a great community, a great piece of software, a well
thought-out technology and really worth pursueing after all. The only thing
I wonder, here, is whether (no matter what might happen in the end) there
are things to be learnt from that, looking at Eclipse (Foundation), Apache
(Software Foundation) or the ObjectWeb (Consortium) behind JOnAS: Though I
fully subscribe to Suns idea of "supported open-source", one should think
whether, despite this business model, the applications themselves
(Glassfish, NetBeans, ...) also should be maintained by some sort of
foundation or any dedicated developer "community" (Codehaus comes to mind as
well). I am aware that also in such a model there still is uncertainty, but
I consider it to be way lower than in how the current development model of,
say, Glassfish or NetBeans looks like.
Well however, back to work.
K.
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 24, 2009 3:16 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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As far as I understood this deal Sun/IBM should be about hardware side.
As a matter of fact IBM owns 31% of the server pie, HP 29% and comes Dell and then Sun with its 10%.
Obviously for IBM taking another 10% would be great, so IBM will get the leadership of server market.
Being a java architect I'm very worry about the other things...
RAD vs NetBeans;
DB2 vs MySQL;
WAS vs GF;
OpenSolaris...???
and all comes with!
Company exists for the profits... no profits no company.
We all should ask these two companies what will happen to the software sector!
Kindly,
Luigi
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 29, 2009 2:42 PM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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After reading all the replies, I feel some have missed the point.
It's absolutely true that, if you're a Glassfish user today, you shouldn't panic over future possibilities. However, if you're only considering moving to Glassfish, it seems absolutely prudent for you to pause and consider the possibilities.
Just because nothing's been finalized, it's not reasonable for anyone to suggest, "Don't worry about what may happen. Go ahead, sell your CIO on Glassfish. Invest your resources to train admins to learn how to install, configure, deploy, and manage Glassfish. Get your developers trained on it. Size your hardware for it. Then, if Glassfish is orphaned by IBM, you can always start over with another application server as long as you wrote JEE compliant apps. Oh, and don't think your CIO will believe you to be a complete tool for suggesting Glassfish in the first place."
Sun could put an end to any speculation about the future of Glassfish by declaring that Glassfish is being donated to an open source organization out of the reach of IBM or any potential suitor. Ditto for NetBeans.
Short of that, I don't know if I'm crazy enough to bet on Glassfish today not knowing if it will be an active project after what seems like the very likely acquisition of Sun by IBM, or another company whose interests rarely coincide with mine.
Just my 2 cents ...
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Re: Sun, IBM and future of Glassfish project?
Posted:
Mar 30, 2009 12:14 AM
in response to: jfrosch
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glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
[...]
> Sun could put an end to any speculation about the future of Glassfish by
> declaring that Glassfish is being donated to an open source organization
> out of the reach of IBM or any potential suitor. Ditto for NetBeans.
Definitely "+1" on that. That's right the point I was thinking/talking
about... in our situation, so far we have adopted Glassfish pretty much as
runtime, but still not as much as completely depending upon it, or even
depending upon Java EE for that matters - though we're to some degree "in
love" with the ideas and technologies offered by Java EE, we're in a slow
transition to there from a bunch of Spring based webapps. So at the moment,
our applications will run both in some Glassfish version or in a plain
servlet container. And at the moment, I really think that this is not too
bad a situation, given the circumstances.
We have als been discussing that issue on a NetBeans related mailing list,
with the overall idea of "oh well, so we're gonna fork as soon as 'something
happens'". Unfortunately, maybe "as soon as" could be weeks or months from
now, basically being weeks or months in which new users might carefully
avoid these projects eventually "at stake" due to the current situations,
eventually making other decisions.
This way, I think the statement that IBM might abandon NetBeans and
Glassfish due to the lack of user base and community might end up being a
self-fulfilling prophecy which is the worst thing at the moment IMHO -
shouldn't at least technical folks involved into this right now be doing
their best trying to _widen_ user base of these technologies??
> Short of that, I don't know if I'm crazy enough to bet on Glassfish today
> not knowing if it will be an active project after what seems like the
> very likely acquisition of Sun by IBM, or another company whose interests
> rarely coincide with mine.
Yes, that's the problem. From the technical view point of my current
position in company, I still will not hesitate introducing, using, promoting
Glassfish as the tool of choice. From being responsible also for strategic
dimensions of technical decisions, at the moment I am not unhappy we're
still making slow progress down the Java EE road so virtually we could drop
in a replacement easily anytime soon. I really really hope something will be
done about this _before_ it's all about waiting for a short-term
"fork-or-forget" decision. 
K.
--
Kristian Rink
cell : +49 176 2447 2771
business: http://www.planconnect.de
personal: http://pictorial.zimmer428.net
"Past midnight. Never knew such silence.
The earth might be uninhabited..."
//beckett / krapp's last tape//
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