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Replies:
14
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Last Post:
Jul 4, 2005 12:22 AM
by: jwenting
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Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 19, 2005 1:25 AM
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Like other languages: Python,Ruby ...
Java should be extended with classes :
* snmp
* telnet
* eval (like java script)
* ssh
* scp
etc.
some basic tools which explane the success of the other languages.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 19, 2005 5:20 AM
in response to: lucevers
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You can find many or all of those here: http://www.google.com
They are not packaged in the JDK's rt.jar. All software in the world does not need to be in rt.jar.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 20, 2005 2:51 AM
in response to: sjasja
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sjasja,
Ok, you can find some of them via Google.
Example: eval
If you look a the solution via Google,you need
to use javaCC ... A lot of program lines for nothing.
I take some time to study solutions in other languages.
Java's possibilities could be increased by introducing
new and easy to use classes.
Examples: Ruby, Judo script...
Take a look at: http://www.judoscript.com/ref/index.html
and look at the SSH/SCP instructions.
You can find the same for Java but then you need to BUY
this classes!!
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 21, 2005 3:06 AM
in response to: lucevers
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oh, and I also want a class for income tax calculation (of course fully automated and localised, and automatically updated with every tax change).
Another class for calculating distances based on a great circle route is also a requirement.
And what about X10 hardware control? Everyone uses that after all.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 21, 2005 6:06 AM
in response to: lucevers
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> Like other languages: Python,Ruby ...
> some basic tools which explane the success of the
> e other languages.
Let us look at language popularity: http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/tekst.htm
The top languages, C and Java, have a rating of about 19%. Ruby weighs in at 0.379%.
From this highly scientific study we conclude that not having a built-in telnet makes a language some fifty times more successful than having it.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 22, 2005 1:54 AM
in response to: sjasja
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>The top languages, C and Java, have a rating of about 19%. >Ruby weighs in at 0.379%.
>From this highly scientific study we conclude that not >having a built-in telnet makes a language some fifty times >more successful than having it.
Of course Telnet is not the most important class.
But how do you explane the Perl,PHP success?
-> 1) easy to use
-> 2) all modules are available ..
etc
Java is a good network programming language but should
support all the basic tools you need in a network environment. (like Perl,expect,Ruby,Python)
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 22, 2005 4:18 AM
in response to: lucevers
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>
> Java is a good network programming language but
> t should
> support all the basic tools you need in a network
> k environment.
It does.
Java supports sockets, the building blocks of network programming.
Specific protocols should not be part of the core language as these are bound to change over time.
Or do you propose adding every possible protocol that anyone can ever think of as a standard part of the language?
You can plug in protocol handlers for a reason, and that's flexibility.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 22, 2005 5:46 AM
in response to: jwenting
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>Or do you propose adding every possible protocol that >anyone can ever think of as a standard part of the >language?
Of course not every possible protocol.
Do you think Perl has a solution for every protocol?
Example:
If you like to write a Java program to check Cisco
routers.
Then you need the management protocols you can find in
Perl,Expect,Ruby .... You don't need to write several
pages todo this sample job.
I'am using Java all the time,my colleagues don't they
use Perl.
So
My critical note is to let Java grow and became the number one.
Don't minimize the flexibility of some languages, can be very important for the Java future.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 23, 2005 6:13 AM
in response to: lucevers
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Java is modular. There's libraries out there that can do just about everything you want if you go looking.
I'm sick and tired of this "XXXX should be in the core API because YYYY has it" (or "because I use it a lot and therefore everyone needs it NOW!!!!").
The core APIs are bloated and have way too much crud as it is, and it looks to only be getting a LOT worse.
My company is seriously considering dropping Java for Progress, I'm starting to think this may be a smart move to leave the sinking ship before only the rats are left.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 23, 2005 7:36 AM
in response to: jwenting
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What are your Java applications? (domain ..)
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 24, 2005 1:13 AM
in response to: lucevers
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mainly enterprise applications in the financial and logistical realm.
That's where a LOT of Java development is happening.
Yet I don't demand that the things we use a lot are made available as part of the core API.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 24, 2005 2:14 PM
in response to: jwenting
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Hmm.. I think there are good reasons to stay with Java. Primarily because it will have a certain degree of longevity because of its huge install base.
That being said.. if you want a dynamic language, the place to practice your generic programming techniques, a functional or some other type of language.. you're probably better off moving to a language that focuses on that need.
Java's original appeal included its clean design. All this feature creep now has reduced that appeal, and Java is known as the bloated overdesigned language now.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jun 24, 2005 11:07 PM
in response to: jwenting
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> The core APIs are bloated and have way too much crud
> as it is, and it looks to only be getting a LOT
> worse.
+1. The worst thing is this bloat increases exponentially every major release.
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jul 2, 2005 8:41 AM
in response to: lucevers
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> Of course Telnet is not the most important class.
> But how do you explane the Perl,PHP success?
> -> 1) easy to use
> -> 2) all modules are available ..
> etc
>
I have just been trying to use something written in perl and it is a complete pain. The module I wanted to use gives a list of other modules required but no urls to find them. OK, so after a bit of googling I find all the components. Next step is to install each in turn. In each case the instructions to do this assume the existence of 'make', which as I am using Windows is not present.
Is this your idea of 'available'?
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Re: Some important classes missing
Posted:
Jul 4, 2005 12:22 AM
in response to: mthornton
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> > Of course Telnet is not the most important class.
> > But how do you explane the Perl,PHP success?
> > -> 1) easy to use
> > -> 2) all modules are available ..
> > etc
> >
>
> I have just been trying to use something written in
> perl and it is a complete pain. The module I wanted
> to use gives a list of other modules required but no
> urls to find them. OK, so after a bit of googling I
> find all the components. Next step is to install each
> in turn. In each case the instructions to do this
> assume the existence of 'make', which as I am using
> Windows is not present.
> Is this your idea of 'available'?
and of course those new modules have their own dependencies which likely conflict with dependencies of other modules you also need causing your entire thing to blow up.
Needing both version 1.2.4.6.23.6.2.4.2 and 1.3.2.563.2.3.2.2.6a of the same module when the makers didn't consider backwards compatibility is a real pain and in the whole Linux/Perl world is all too common.
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