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Replies:
21
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Last Post:
Sep 30, 2006 6:58 AM
by: Romain GUY
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TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 11:47 AM
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So a couple months ago I started playing around with the TimingFramework and
Painters. Since there has been a little more discussion on the list lately
about it, I checked in some code I had for TransitionEffects.
TransitionEffects are just simple wrappers around the ImageEffects and
TimingFramework. A webstart link yet is forthcoming, but for now the code
is in my incubator (wsnyder6) folder. (woohoo my first commit to the
incubator since I signed the JCA 3-4 years ago). And yes, there is a Ripple
animation.
The API just boils down to setting the ImageEffect of a Painter
e.g. myPainter.setEffects(rippleTransitionEffect);
Thats it, calling start() on the rippleTransitionEffect would begin the
animation.
Note: the code depends on Matisse, JHLabs filters, and the TimingFramework.
--Bill
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 11:55 AM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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Thanks Bill!
Did you commit those 3 jars into /lib/bsnyder, or do I need to locate them myself?
Thanks!
Erik
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 11:57 AM
in response to: evickroy
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I can put them there.
On 9/28/06, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org <jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org>
wrote:
>
> Thanks Bill!
>
> Did you commit those 3 jars into /lib/bsnyder, or do I need to locate them
> myself?
>
> Thanks!
> Erik
> [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157852
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 12:10 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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All required jars are there now in lib/wsnyder6
On 9/28/06, Bill Snyder <wsnyder6@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can put them there.
>
> On 9/28/06, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org < jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bill!
> >
> > Did you commit those 3 jars into /lib/bsnyder, or do I need to locate
> > them myself?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Erik
> > [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
> >
> > http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157852
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
> >
> >
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 12:22 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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Ok thanks!
Am I correct in thinking that currently only the JXPanel supports painters?
Erik
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 12:33 PM
in response to: evickroy
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I think that is the case.
On 9/28/06, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org <jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org>
wrote:
>
> Ok thanks!
>
>
> Am I correct in thinking that currently only the JXPanel supports
> painters?
>
> Erik
> [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157881
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 2:39 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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There is a new JXButton and JXLabel class in the painter branch that
also support Painters (and in fact that is all that they do). The
work the same as JXPanel except they try to do something special with
the foreground and background painters. (this is something that we
need to think through).
- Josh
On Sep 28, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Bill Snyder wrote:
> I think that is the case.
>
> On 9/28/06, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org < jdnc-
> interest@javadesktop.org> wrote:
> Ok thanks!
>
>
> Am I correct in thinking that currently only the JXPanel supports
> painters?
>
> Erik
> [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157881
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
- Blasting forth in three part harmony!
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 4:57 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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Hey Bill, I'm running the PainterAnimationDemo, but the animation is very slow and it pegs the cpu at 100%. That's not expected is it? 
I'll run it thru the profiler and see if anything turns up.
Erik
P.S. Cute picture in the demo.
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 5:01 PM
in response to: evickroy
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It is expected. It relies on JHLabs filters which are very CPU
intensive. There is not much chance to get away with those and have
good performance. Apple had to implement these effects as hardware
shaders to have real time animations with Core Video and Core Image.
I already asked the Java2D team to try to implement some
optimizations for know filters (for instance Java2D could detect when
you apply a blur with a ConvolveOp and use a pixel shader to do it
instead of the CPU.)
On 29 sept. 06, at 01:57, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
> Hey Bill, I'm running the PainterAnimationDemo, but the animation
> is very slow and it pegs the cpu at 100%. That's not expected is
> it?
>
> I'll run it thru the profiler and see if anything turns up.
>
>
> Erik
>
> P.S. Cute picture in the demo.
> [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157967
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
--
Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
http://jroller.com/page/gfx
http://www.progx.org
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 6:07 PM
in response to: Romain GUY
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Yeah, unfortunately like Romain mentioned, I am not sure if there is a way
around the performance issues with the JHLabs code. I haven't tested this
out on anything other than my laptop (which is a 1.8 Centrino with 1G RAM)
The animations run smooth - but at near 90% CPU. Just out of curiosity, what
are the specs of the machine you ran the demo on?
On 9/28/06, Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com> wrote:
>
> It is expected. It relies on JHLabs filters which are very CPU
> intensive. There is not much chance to get away with those and have
> good performance. Apple had to implement these effects as hardware
> shaders to have real time animations with Core Video and Core Image.
> I already asked the Java2D team to try to implement some
> optimizations for know filters (for instance Java2D could detect when
> you apply a blur with a ConvolveOp and use a pixel shader to do it
> instead of the CPU.)
>
> On 29 sept. 06, at 01:57, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
> > Hey Bill, I'm running the PainterAnimationDemo, but the animation
> > is very slow and it pegs the cpu at 100%. That's not expected is
> > it?
> >
> > I'll run it thru the profiler and see if anything turns up.
> >
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > P.S. Cute picture in the demo.
> > [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
> >
> > http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157967
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
> >
>
> --
> Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
> http://jroller.com/page/gfx
> http://www.progx.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 6:15 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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On my MacBook Pro Core Duo 2.0 Ghz with a whopping 2 GB of RAM, the
animations were not slow but not very smooth either (remember Apple's
VM is not the fastest, especially for graphics tasks  But that
could be due to a high resolution timer.
I haven't looked at your source code but I guess there might be ways
to optimize things at least just a bit. [A few minutes later] Okay
now I have looked at your source code. You are asking the whole
JFrame to repaint and that might not be the wisest thing to do; not
in this case but generally speaking. Also in the case of the Ripple
effect, you are applying two filters in a row. This is damn expensive
(I bet you knew that but I love beating obvious facts). When we
implemented the DropShadowFactory in the incubator, we merged two
filters (colorize in black then blur) into a single one. That saves
quite a lot of CPU. But doing so for every transition effect could be
a tad tedious.
On 29 sept. 06, at 03:07, Bill Snyder wrote:
> Yeah, unfortunately like Romain mentioned, I am not sure if there
> is a way around the performance issues with the JHLabs code. I
> haven't tested this out on anything other than my laptop (which is
> a 1.8 Centrino with 1G RAM) The animations run smooth - but at near
> 90% CPU. Just out of curiosity, what are the specs of the machine
> you ran the demo on?
>
> On 9/28/06, Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com> wrote: It is expected.
> It relies on JHLabs filters which are very CPU
> intensive. There is not much chance to get away with those and have
> good performance. Apple had to implement these effects as hardware
> shaders to have real time animations with Core Video and Core Image.
> I already asked the Java2D team to try to implement some
> optimizations for know filters (for instance Java2D could detect when
> you apply a blur with a ConvolveOp and use a pixel shader to do it
> instead of the CPU.)
>
> On 29 sept. 06, at 01:57, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
> > Hey Bill, I'm running the PainterAnimationDemo, but the animation
> > is very slow and it pegs the cpu at 100%. That's not expected is
> > it?
> >
> > I'll run it thru the profiler and see if anything turns up.
> >
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > P.S. Cute picture in the demo.
> > [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
> >
> > http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157967
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
> >
>
> --
> Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
> http://jroller.com/page/gfx
> http://www.progx.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
--
Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
http://jroller.com/page/gfx
http://www.progx.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 6:24 PM
in response to: Romain GUY
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Right, I knew I could probably get away with the JFrame repaint since it was
pretty simplistic.
Yep, the dissolve and ripple effect uses two filters; one of which is an
opacity filter. Since JXPanel has alpha support, that opacity filter is
really unecessary.
On 9/28/06, Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On my MacBook Pro Core Duo 2.0 Ghz with a whopping 2 GB of RAM, the
> animations were not slow but not very smooth either (remember Apple's
> VM is not the fastest, especially for graphics tasks But that
> could be due to a high resolution timer.
>
> I haven't looked at your source code but I guess there might be ways
> to optimize things at least just a bit. [A few minutes later] Okay
> now I have looked at your source code. You are asking the whole
> JFrame to repaint and that might not be the wisest thing to do; not
> in this case but generally speaking. Also in the case of the Ripple
> effect, you are applying two filters in a row. This is damn expensive
> (I bet you knew that but I love beating obvious facts). When we
> implemented the DropShadowFactory in the incubator, we merged two
> filters (colorize in black then blur) into a single one. That saves
> quite a lot of CPU. But doing so for every transition effect could be
> a tad tedious.
>
> On 29 sept. 06, at 03:07, Bill Snyder wrote:
>
> > Yeah, unfortunately like Romain mentioned, I am not sure if there
> > is a way around the performance issues with the JHLabs code. I
> > haven't tested this out on anything other than my laptop (which is
> > a 1.8 Centrino with 1G RAM) The animations run smooth - but at near
> > 90% CPU. Just out of curiosity, what are the specs of the machine
> > you ran the demo on?
> >
> > On 9/28/06, Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com> wrote: It is expected.
> > It relies on JHLabs filters which are very CPU
> > intensive. There is not much chance to get away with those and have
> > good performance. Apple had to implement these effects as hardware
> > shaders to have real time animations with Core Video and Core Image.
> > I already asked the Java2D team to try to implement some
> > optimizations for know filters (for instance Java2D could detect when
> > you apply a blur with a ConvolveOp and use a pixel shader to do it
> > instead of the CPU.)
> >
> > On 29 sept. 06, at 01:57, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Bill, I'm running the PainterAnimationDemo, but the animation
> > > is very slow and it pegs the cpu at 100%. That's not expected is
> > > it?
> > >
> > > I'll run it thru the profiler and see if anything turns up.
> > >
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >
> > > P.S. Cute picture in the demo.
> > > [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
> > >
> > > http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157967
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
> > http://jroller.com/page/gfx
> > http://www.progx.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
> >
> >
>
> --
> Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
> http://jroller.com/page/gfx
> http://www.progx.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 6:36 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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I'm running it on an iBook G4 (1.33 GHZ), 1.5 GB RAM. I know its no racehorse, but it isn't a pack mule either.
I have a PC that is considerably more powerful here, but I've developed a severe allergy to Winblows over the past decade, so that isn't really an option.
Wow! Maybe I can use this as an excuse to upgrade to a new MacBook Pro! Probably won't pass by the wife, though.... not until Christmas.
Erik
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 7:17 PM
in response to: evickroy
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I put a webstartable demo up here:
http://24.95.59.118/incubator/JDNC-Incubator-Bill.jnlp
On 9/28/06, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org <jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org>
wrote:
>
> I'm running it on an iBook G4 (1.33 GHZ), 1.5 GB RAM. I know its no
> racehorse, but it isn't a pack mule either.
>
> I have a PC that is considerably more powerful here, but I've developed a
> severe allergy to Winblows over the past decade, so that isn't really an
> option.
>
> Wow! Maybe I can use this as an excuse to upgrade to a new MacBook
> Pro! Probably won't pass by the wife, though.... not until Christmas.
>
> Erik
> [Message sent by forum member 'evickroy' (evickroy)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157993
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
[att1.html]
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 10:28 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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Thanks the maker for webstart versions of demos!
Nice, it is a bit slow thought, and some of the animations can be faster with simple awt/java2d drawing (like the flyby one). I guess it's a bit sluggish in this case because of the repaint logic or because this is meant to be a generic transition effect "framework"?
BTW romain, some of these effects, wasn't JAI (probably a dead project now) supposed to do some of these very fast?
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 29, 2006 2:25 AM
in response to: augusto
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I like the dissolve effect quite a bit.
Seems the most useful thing to come out of this experimentation is not
only library extensions, components and APIs, but also heuristics on
when and how to use these effects. Seems as well something every app
should be able to turn on or off with a (single?) switch in case the
processor can't handle it.
On my laptop, the ATI configuration utility has one properties panel
where you can "turn down" hardware acceleration if problems are
showing up. Something like that might be cool to control whether
effects are in use and to what extent.
Thanks for the webstart link, nice job.
Patrick
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 29, 2006 7:12 AM
in response to: Patrick Wright
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Thanks for the comments everyone.
Yep, the demo is there to help start some discussion on effects - what the
APIs might be and posible usage patterns. And (to answer augusto) as most
prototype code, it's not really intended to be an example of superior
graphics performance - I put a little more thought into the API instead.
Hopefully it works enough for you to get the idea.
(And stating the obvious here - making the window smaller will help speed
the animation up )
On 9/29/06, Patrick Wright <pdoubleya@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like the dissolve effect quite a bit.
>
> Seems the most useful thing to come out of this experimentation is not
> only library extensions, components and APIs, but also heuristics on
> when and how to use these effects. Seems as well something every app
> should be able to turn on or off with a (single?) switch in case the
> processor can't handle it.
>
> On my laptop, the ATI configuration utility has one properties panel
> where you can "turn down" hardware acceleration if problems are
> showing up. Something like that might be cool to control whether
> effects are in use and to what extent.
>
> Thanks for the webstart link, nice job.
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 29, 2006 9:03 AM
in response to: Patrick Wright
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Bill, way cool! And thanks for the web start demo -- I love those .
> Seems the most useful thing to come out of this
> experimentation is not
> only library extensions, components and APIs, but
> also heuristics on
> when and how to use these effects. Seems as well
> something every app
> should be able to turn on or off with a (single?)
> switch in case the
> processor can't handle it.
What we've talked about doing is actually to have some way of indicating a fallback painter pipeline, or some such, and then let the system automatically determine whether the machine can handle the beefed up animations or not.
There are several heuristics that could be used. One could be explicit (ie: a command line switch or preference indicating what level to run the animations at). Another could be to check and see if OGL or Direct3D is in use. Another could be to use timings, run the painters, and determine if they crossed a certain painting threshold. Another could be to try to read system properties to determine the hardware, and match that against "minimum" hardware specs supplied by the developer.
I think it would be really cool if there were a way to automatically determine at runtime and adjust as necessary. For example, perhaps some heavy processor function is occuring -- it would be nice to degrade gracefully.
I don't think anybody has really worked on this yet, but it would be great to see something done in this area, I think.
Richard
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 29, 2006 9:08 AM
in response to: rbair
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I did work a bit on that but I coud not find a proper way to do it.
Besides, my heuristics based on fuzzy logic was consuming too much
CPU and it became the bottleneck in many animations
On 29 sept. 06, at 18:03, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
> I think it would be really cool if there were a way to
> automatically determine at runtime and adjust as necessary.
--
Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
http://jroller.com/page/gfx
http://www.progx.org
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 6:53 AM
in response to: Romain GUY
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Probably the best thing would be a one-time calculation at startup.
Something like
run_test 10 times // to get hotspot to kick in
start_timer
run_test 10 times
stop_timer
and then calculate some kind of bogomips rating which tells what level
of effects you can use.
This is pretty much the scheme most games use.
Romain GUY wrote:
> I did work a bit on that but I coud not find a proper way to do it.
> Besides, my heuristics based on fuzzy logic was consuming too much CPU
> and it became the bottleneck in many animations
>
> On 29 sept. 06, at 18:03, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>> I think it would be really cool if there were a way to automatically
>> determine at runtime and adjust as necessary.
>
> --Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
> http://jroller.com/page/gfx
> http://www.progx.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>
>
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 30, 2006 6:58 AM
in response to: Noel Grandin
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It cannot work in this case because we would like the animations to
degrade gracefully whenever the CPU gets busy (for instance another
app kicks in and eats up many CPU cycles.) Games don't need to do
that realtime, just at startup indeed.
On 30 sept. 06, at 15:53, Noel Grandin wrote:
> Probably the best thing would be a one-time calculation at startup.
>
> Something like
> run_test 10 times // to get hotspot to kick in
> start_timer
> run_test 10 times
> stop_timer
>
> and then calculate some kind of bogomips rating which tells what level
> of effects you can use.
>
> This is pretty much the scheme most games use.
>
> Romain GUY wrote:
>> I did work a bit on that but I coud not find a proper way to do it.
>> Besides, my heuristics based on fuzzy logic was consuming too much
>> CPU
>> and it became the bottleneck in many animations
>>
>> On 29 sept. 06, at 18:03, jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>>
>>> I think it would be really cool if there were a way to automatically
>>> determine at runtime and adjust as necessary.
>>
>> --Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
>> http://jroller.com/page/gfx
>> http://www.progx.org
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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--
Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
http://jroller.com/page/gfx
http://www.progx.org
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Re: TransitionEffects
Posted:
Sep 28, 2006 12:31 PM
in response to: Bill Snyder
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Hey nice!
On 28 sept. 06, at 20:47, Bill Snyder wrote:
> So a couple months ago I started playing around with the
> TimingFramework and Painters. Since there has been a little more
> discussion on the list lately about it, I checked in some code I
> had for TransitionEffects. TransitionEffects are just simple
> wrappers around the ImageEffects and TimingFramework. A webstart
> link yet is forthcoming, but for now the code is in my incubator
> (wsnyder6) folder. (woohoo my first commit to the incubator since I
> signed the JCA 3-4 years ago). And yes, there is a Ripple animation.
>
> The API just boils down to setting the ImageEffect of a Painter
> e.g. myPainter.setEffects(rippleTransitionEffect);
>
> Thats it, calling start() on the rippleTransitionEffect would begin
> the animation.
>
> Note: the code depends on Matisse, JHLabs filters, and the
> TimingFramework.
>
> --Bill
--
Romain GUY <romain.guy@mac.com>
http://jroller.com/page/gfx
http://www.progx.org
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